It's late here, so before I turn in a quick note on tonight's debates. I think Cheney edged Edwards. Both are good debaters. I don't agree with Cheney on a lot of issues, but he was on message as opposed to his boss last Thursday who looked like a deer in headlights.
Edwards wimped out on the gay marriage question. He says he and Kerry support "one man, one woman" and yet wants benefits that are like a marriage. Okay, so why don't we just call it a marriage, John? What's so wrong with that?
Plus for Cheney for actually having showing his lesbian daughter, Mary Cheney. Wish you had done that at the GOP convention.
Friday's debate in St. Louis should be interesting.
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Posted by: 英国はカジノを賭けていま at October 11, 2004 10:09 AMWhat surprises me is that you have always been a person that has been for sane discussion and for America to come back together. What I'm hearing from you know if far from that. It doesn't sound like you. As long as you have commented, you have sounded a tone for civility and healing. Your words tonight are very different and as I just said, don't sound like you.
I responded on another thread Dennis. The matter touches on the poison that infects this country - it should be aired - and I encourage you to continue the discussion.
Posted by: dorsano at October 7, 2004 07:35 PMDorsano,
But we all know that is Cheney's way. He is a go for the jugular kind of debater.
As for misrepresenting the facts, I think he did. I'm not surprised by that because that is something this Adminstration has done. I've talked about that on the blog. (Remember the whole "global test" stuff?)If this is the first time you've noticed that, I'm a little surprised. They have been doing it for years.
Also, if you want to be angry at Cheney it should be for something more substantial than when he met Edwards. There are many more serious whoppers that have been told that would be more warranted of your seeming anger
I would add that Edwards did some misrepresentation as well, though not to the same extent as Cheney. That is politics. Sadly the Bushies are very good at streching the truth.
What surprises me is that you have always been a person that has been for sane discussion and for America to come back together. What I'm hearing from you know if far from that. It doesn't sound like you. As long as you have commented, you have sounded a tone for civility and healing. Your words tonight are very different and as I just said, don't sound like you.
I hope we don't lose the more civil sounding you. We have enough shrill voices.
Posted by: Dennis at October 7, 2004 12:18 AMCheney attacked Edwards in a pretty nasty way. Even if the facts on which the attack was based were true, it was not a Reagan moment for Cheney (Reagan would have left us laughing or at least smiling).
It turns out that not only did Cheney (knowingly) misrepresent the facts, but he is guilty (at least as far as Tuesdays - opening day of the Senate - are concerned) of what he accused Edwards of.
I have a zero tolerance policy for that sort of behavior - it's a form political terrorism (to use an overused word).
Posted by: dorsano at October 6, 2004 11:58 PMDorsano,
Why are you taking anything nice you said about Cheney? You said in your first comment about how you wished for a nation not at war with itself and now you basically joined the fight.
I'm just alittle confused.
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2004 11:37 PMWell, it turns out that not only did Cheney and Edwards meet at least three times - Cheney's only presided over the Senate twice in the last four years, the same as Edwards.
Freshman Senator Clinton, the evil one incarnate (destroyer of health care, capitalism, morality and democracy), has presided over the Senate more often than either Edwards or Cheney.
Cheney's proved he's a world class Dick - it seems. I take back anything nice I ever said about him.
Posted by: dorsano at October 6, 2004 06:23 PMI was unimpressed with Cheney. I expected him to really hit hard but he appeared almost lethargic throughout the entire debate. There were too many 'I don't know where to begin' openings. It appeared he was not prepared to deal with the Haliburton issues, the Bremer comments and the Rumsfield's quotes.
I fear his health condition may be taking some toll on his ability to communicate.
Posted by: EG at October 6, 2004 05:39 PMI thought it was a draw until I heard about Cheney's lies.
Posted by: Dave Diamond at October 6, 2004 03:40 PMCheney looked good. I thought he did well. I dont think Edwards did badly but he did not have the same level of authority when he spoke.
I am one of the few people that actually like Cheney though so I would be biased and admit it.
As far as Cheney not meeting Edwards being disproved - I dont think thats a good point for the democrats. A VP candidate that makes such a weak impression that he isnt remembered a few years later....
All in all it was a very enjoyable debate.
Cheney's performance was better than his boss's, but Senator Edwards definitely had the win on the debate. He proved that he is cool, calm, and collected; that he has what it takes to be the second in command; and if needed, he would take up the #1 position in our country, with strength and poise.
Posted by: E at October 6, 2004 01:09 PMNot only did they show Mary, but her partner Heather too! Although the poor thing looked very uncomfortable out there on stage (I've heard they are a very private couple by choice), but I think it was the right thing to do, especially in light of the 2 questions about marriage.
Posted by: Ace at October 6, 2004 12:59 PMI saw it as Edwards by a nose in the short term. No doubt Cheney was far, far better than the impotent Bush so far.
In the longer run I think the big NEWS in this debate is Cheney saying HE NEVER said Iraq was linked to 9-11. That'll be news to one heck of a lot of American who've been smothered in rhetoric linking the two by the administration.
There are plenty of video and audio clips that will be played alongside that quote for the next month and it'll make the administration look like they haven't been truthful.
Also, the precanned zinger about not meeting Edwards till "tonight" is already backfiring.
A lot more post debate grist for the Dems in this debate make this a long term winner for their side.
If the Cheney social issue responses are the same ones Bush is going to try to give Friday night is going to be a long one for Bush.
Posted by: Mark Darcy at October 6, 2004 11:50 AMExcept for the whole part about Cheney lying about never having met Edwards.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:S4X7WDzDUcoJ:static.highbeam.com/w/washingtontranscriptservice/february012001/vicepresidentdickcheneyvicepresidentdickcheneydeli/+%22+friends+from+across+America,+and+distinguished+visitors+to+our+country+from+all+over+the+world:+Lynne+and+I+are+honored+to+be+with+you+all+this+morning%22&hl=en
Edwards helped Cheney appear to be human when the question of Cheney's daughter came up - and whether their deference to each other was genuine or not is hard to say
but it was a brief glimpse of what this country could be if it were not at war with itself.
Posted by: dorsano at October 6, 2004 03:09 AM